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Tēma: Notikumi UkraināZiedot Ukrainas armijas atbalstam var uz Ukrainas Nacionālās bankas speciāli izveidoto kontu
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Lafter  | |  Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
Ziņojumi: 28029
Braucu ar: wv
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15 Mar 2024, 09:41:07 @Kidd rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 09:07:29 @Lafter rakstīja:
Uk nav tādu raķešu??- ir! Kāpec nedodat?
Eh? Kas tad ir Storm Shadow raķetes, kuras nes Krimā arā slāvu c-300 un c-400?
Viņas nav tik jaudīgas, nav tāda attāluma darbības. Lai nedod eksporta versiju, bet normālo. Kāpēc nedod? Viņas ir. Runa par tālas darbības raķetēm. 400+km un lielu kaboom!
Man gan izskatās, ka čalis pamodies tāds ēnā. Un cenšās paziņot par savu eksistenci izmisīgi vicinot rociñu! Esmu šeit! Auu tauta! Francija! Ģeržava! Mani redzat?? To solījumu laikam pietiek jau no visām malām. [ Šo ziņu laboja Lafter, 15 Mar 2024, 09:47:49 ]
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| Kidd | |  Kopš: 18. May 2009
Ziņojumi: 8159
Braucu ar: 400Zs
| taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos? | | Offline | | |
Bosnija  | |  Kopš: 14. May 2002
Ziņojumi: 13583
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15 Mar 2024, 09:07:29 @Lafter rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 08:23:36 @-next- rakstīja:
Makrons vienkarši ir vislielākais dirsējs
Identisks viedoklis. Pulè spalvas un dirš par 9. Labāk lai ar darbiem iesākumā- mazumiņu! Tur munīciju utt. Ir kàd pēdējā laikā dzirdējis par palīdzību Ukrainai no viņiem? Izņemot USA un Vāciju. Kuri tagad dominē. Kāpèc Vācija viena sāka vilkt to pasākumu? Var teikt burtiski pēc senāta čakarēšanās. Toties par tiem sūda Taurusiem skandina katru dienu. FR arī ir tāda attāluma darbības raķetes. Kāpēc nedod? Uk nav tādu raķešu??- ir! Kāpec nedodat?
Labi kad palīdz un es tu neglorificēju un nenosodu. Taču vairāk vai mazāk visi pa lielam spodrina spalvas ar paziņojumiem un rāda ar pirkstu viens uz otru. Diezgan tizla izrāde no skatītāja viedokļa.
Noteikti piars pateica aktivizēties. Nedrīkst aizmirst kā viņš un Merkele uzmeta Ukrainu 2014. Umentējs uz mūžu paliek uzmetējs, nu viņam ļoti būtu jāiespringst lai savu tēlu spodrinātu, šobrīd atbalsts diemžēl vairāk orāls.... | | Offline | | |
| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
Ziņojumi: 28029
Braucu ar: wv
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15 Mar 2024, 09:48:42 @Kidd rakstīja:
taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos?
domāju nē- runa par krimas tiltu. Tik pat labi Amerikāñi lai iedod atacams. Nevis kasešu. Bet ar kaboom galviņu. Visi lamājot Vāciju izvairīgi klusē par pašu iespējām iedot ko līdzīgu. Nu īsumā visas manas garās atejas doma ir- Franči jau nu pēdējie varēja rādīt uz pirkstu ar citiem. Salīdzinot ar iespējām- viņi ne sūda nav devuši. Ko pierāda arī cipari (cik pieejami publikajā telpā)
Ja iesākumā iedotu kko un tad runātu. Jautajumu nav vispār. Pat Poļiem viņi līdzi nestāv.
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| Kidd | | Kopš: 18. May 2009
Ziņojumi: 8159
Braucu ar: 400Zs
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3HDdPYoAoS/?igs...ZXUzcGw2c3Fvaw== | | Offline | | |
| piradzinjsh | | Kopš: 29. Aug 2012
No: Liepāja
Ziņojumi: 2266
Braucu ar: vienu radzi
| Šī tāda pavecāka bilde no 2023. gada septembra. Francijas šeit nav.
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| e34 | |  Kopš: 11. Feb 2004
Ziņojumi: 3998
Braucu ar: e53 is; Simply cleveri; Honda XL
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15 Mar 2024, 09:48:42 @Kidd rakstīja:
taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos?
Taurusam ir būtiska atšķirība ar tehnisko programmējumu spēt noteikt objekta slāņus, ietriecoties tajā un sprāgt tad, kad vajag, piemēram, iznīcinot pazemes fortifikācijas utt. Ar šīm raķetēm arī Kerčas tilta dienas būtu skaitītas, no tā mīž DE. | | Offline | | |
| Kidd | | Kopš: 18. May 2009
Ziņojumi: 8159
Braucu ar: 400Zs
|
15 Mar 2024, 13:47:37 @e34 rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 09:48:42 @Kidd rakstīja:
taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos?
Taurusam ir būtiska atšķirība ar tehnisko programmējumu spēt noteikt objekta slāņus, ietriecoties tajā un sprāgt tad, kad vajag, piemēram, iznīcinot pazemes fortifikācijas utt. Ar šīm raķetēm arī Kerčas tilta dienas būtu skaitītas, no tā mīž DE.
runa bija, ka uk nedod raķetes ar attālumu kā taurus.caursišana vai detonācijas sekvence , itkā, netika pieminēta | | Offline | | |
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| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
Ziņojumi: 28029
Braucu ar: wv
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15 Mar 2024, 14:18:29 @Kidd rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 13:47:37 @e34 rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 09:48:42 @Kidd rakstīja:
taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos?
Taurusam ir būtiska atšķirība ar tehnisko programmējumu spēt noteikt objekta slāņus, ietriecoties tajā un sprāgt tad, kad vajag, piemēram, iznīcinot pazemes fortifikācijas utt. Ar šīm raķetēm arī Kerčas tilta dienas būtu skaitītas, no tā mīž DE.
runa bija, ka uk nedod raķetes ar attālumu kā taurus.caursišana vai detonācijas sekvence , itkā, netika pieminēta
Arī bez tà krimas tilta ir kur babovinas taisīt. Un arī UK ir jaudas ziņā ekvivalenti ieroči. Tāpat, kā Francijai, nerunājot nemaz par USA. Tagad viens cietējs izlīdis un skandina kā viņš vati ierobežos. Kaut ne tuvu tādos apjomos nav palīdzējuši Ukrainai. UK un pàrējie màca dzîvot to, kurš tagad velk to palīdzību lielāko tiesu uz saviem pleciem kopā ar citām valstīm kuras mazāk muld un vairāk dara, spēlē politiku un nodarbojas ar kkādu huiņu. - iespaids tàds rodas. Nav manuprāt pareizi un godīgi.
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| e34 | | Kopš: 11. Feb 2004
Ziņojumi: 3998
Braucu ar: e53 is; Simply cleveri; Honda XL
|
15 Mar 2024, 14:18:29 @Kidd rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 13:47:37 @e34 rakstīja:
15 Mar 2024, 09:48:42 @Kidd rakstīja:
taurus un storm shadow gan svars, gan payload ir praktiski vienāds. Tas, ka viņas ir ierobežotas uz +- 300 km = nu tā tas ir. jeņķi savējās jau arī ierobežo. Tu domā, ka taurus arī neierobežos?
Taurusam ir būtiska atšķirība ar tehnisko programmējumu spēt noteikt objekta slāņus, ietriecoties tajā un sprāgt tad, kad vajag, piemēram, iznīcinot pazemes fortifikācijas utt. Ar šīm raķetēm arī Kerčas tilta dienas būtu skaitītas, no tā mīž DE.
runa bija, ka uk nedod raķetes ar attālumu kā taurus.caursišana vai detonācijas sekvence , itkā, netika pieminēta
Te kaut kas minēts https://www.politico.eu/article/why-germany-sch...missile-ukraine/ | | Offline | | |
| kaprons2 | | Kopš: 04. Jun 2019
Ziņojumi: 1028
Braucu ar:
| Maunuprāt Francija vairāk kā tāds kodolieroču atturēšanas garants.
Vispār jau viņi solīja, ka dos Cēzarus.
Mans viedoklis, ka varēja aiziet uz Piedņestru(kuri grib karot, tad tos iesauc citu valstu armijās)vienkārši to izformēt, lai Ukrainai nav jātur spēki.
Nav jēgas kādiem RU lohiem tur tupēt un gaidīt pastaro dienu.[ Šo ziņu laboja kaprons2, 15 Mar 2024, 15:05:00 ] | | Offline | | |
| RSAWorkshop | |  Kopš: 13. Dec 2014
No: Rīga
Ziņojumi: 6869
Braucu ar: G31/E53/E46/E39/E36/F31
| ja nemaldos, tad kopsummā 49 Cēzari ir Ukrainā no Francijas un Dānijas
Un vēl daži Arčeri no Zviedrijas
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RSAWorkshop-BMW remonts un apkope
24400993 | | Offline | | |
RVR  | |  Kopš: 18. Sep 2008
Ziņojumi: 22196
Braucu ar: RVR
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15 Mar 2024, 15:03:11 @kaprons2 rakstīja:
Mans viedoklis, ka varēja aiziet uz Piedņestru(kuri grib karot, tad tos iesauc citu valstu armijās)vienkārši to izformēt, lai Ukrainai nav jātur spēki.
Nav jēgas kādiem RU lohiem tur tupēt un gaidīt pastaro dienu.
Piedņestra ir Moldovas teritorija un neviens tāpat vien tur neies neko izformēt. Ja Moldova lūgs palīdzību, tad jau tas būs iemesls izskatīt šādu variantu. | | Offline | | |
| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
Ziņojumi: 28029
Braucu ar: wv
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15 Mar 2024, 15:06:53 @RSAWorkshop rakstīja:
ja nemaldos, tad kopsummā 49 Cēzari ir Ukrainā no Francijas un Dānijas
Un vēl daži Arčeri no Zviedrijas
Francija 18 piegādājusi (nezinu vai visus, varbūt kas mainījies) dała uz 2026 gadu. Kad uzražos.
Dānija 19 iedeva. Kuras nopirka no Francijas par savu naudu
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| DeeCee | |  Kopš: 29. Jun 2007
No: Rīga
Ziņojumi: 9264
Braucu ar: Tenere 700 un Procaliber
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15 Mar 2024, 09:26:46 @Lafter rakstīja:
Es gan lieku uz standartu- iekšējās problēmas notušēt ar skaistiem vārdiem un bruņu pulēšanu. Lai spīd savai tautai acīs un šie sajūsmā skatās. Nopietnus nodomus pierādītu arī palīdzība materiāla- kopā ar vàrdiem. Nevis tikai tukši paziņojumi.
Viņi uz maiņām. Sākumā Uk saņemās. Palīdz paši un kaunina citus. Tad UK ,,pazūd,, - Vietā Vācija- cepuri nost!  Čehija daudz nemuld bet atrod risinājumu un pajautā tikai palīdzēt ar naudu. Somi, swe utt.
Tam pa vidu pastarpināti Francija lavierē un kaut ko iedod- bet pārsvarā tas viss ir spalvu spodrināšana. Protams arī viņu pienesums ir un ne mazs. Taču labāk lai runā darbi- nevis vàrdi. Pagaidām tukša diršana no viņiem. Pagaidām! Kā būs tālāk, dzīve rādīs.
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All in all, the total value of French military equipment delivered to Ukraine amounts to € 2.615 billion. In addition, France contributed € 1.2 billion to the European Peace Facility (EPF). Overall, this amounts to more than € 3.8 billion between 24 February 2022 and 31 December 2023..
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Germany support – more than 27.8 billion euro to date – to people in Ukraine, and it stands firmly by their side, making available much more than just military equipment. Read on for more information about .
Nemaz nerunājot par citiem. Tāpēc vecās petenes laizītājs varēja mazākais beigt muti virināt tukši un sākt vairāk palūdzēt fiziski. Viñi ne sūda nav iedevuši uz kopējā fona.
https://twitter.com/EHunterChristie/status/1768618877418619370
bildes twitter, slinkums pārlikt
A note for those who are sceptical about whether Macron's change in stance is genuine:
1: The views of Bruno Tertrais and Camille Grand, both very expert and very well connected -- are authoritative (see images below)
2: On the notion that this is domestic politics: really no, it would be much easier for Macron to lean back.
He's being challenged and attacked within France by the sadly large far-left and far-right parties, but also by the traditional centre-right opposition party leader (Eric Ciotti, Les Republicains).
Many journalists, including those who interviewed him last night, are giving him a hard time and narratives that exploit fear and desires of appeasement are widespread.
Public opinion is still quite strongly in favour of aiding Ukraine militarily, but less than a year ago.
And of course there have been negative reactions from fellow allies, and also Russian threats and disinformation.
Macron is definitely not on the path of least resistance. He is attempting a tour de force.
3: so, it isn't domestic politics, it's foreign policy properly grounded in strategic considerations.
And for that, the analysis of Bruno Tertrais is a solid reference as to the reasons for Macron's changed position -- in addition to Macron's own, very clearly expressed concerns.
4: everybody knows that the war is on a dangerous trajectory, due to:
- Russia's intent: the repeatedly confirmed radicalisation of the Russian state's war aims; of its wider aggressive designs; of its concrete hostile acts worldwide, including against France (Macron mentioned cyber-attacks against France and economic warfare against Europe).
- Russia's capabilities: it is far more in war economy mode than any Western country, which creates a far more dangerous future in case of a Russian victory.
- The West's intent: America has become unreliable due to Trump's manipulations from behind the scenes -- and it will only get worse if he wins in November. But even if he doesn't: at this time, the U.S. is already unreliable. This forces Europe to do more.
- The West's capabilities: there are still mountains to be moved to get to where we need to be. Macron knows it. We all do.
And it is rather here that politics comes back with a vengeance. He has to make his population understand that hard choices are coming, including in terms of budgets. Our governments are all going to have to work on that, while making sure they don't lose elections in favour of pro-Moscow populists.
6: On Bruno Tertrais' point about Macron's vision for Europe: this is clearly genuine, and now with a sense of urgency which we need to see in Berlin and in Rome, among other capitals.
It is indeed the case that a nightmare scenario looms of a Europe that fundamentally loses control of its own destiny and security in a world where the great powers are either adversaries or lacking in reliability.
7: Lastly, for those who oppose sending artillery shells versus deploying forces: that is an incorrect analysis.
European efforts to supply Ukraine are real and substantial and will continue. Taking additional actions will complement material supplies and will give Ukraine and Europe more options and ultimately more strength.
The time to wake up is now.
Macron is right.
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| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
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| Sorre dažreiz par palagiem šeit un NATO topic.
Kāpēc nelieku linku-
New york Times abonaments laikam nav pilnīgi visiem. Maksas publikācijas..
Tad beidzot!!! Kko sāk domàt reāli darīt 
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Macron and Scholz Meet, Looking to Patch Up Differences on Ukraine
The leaders of France and Germany will try to heal an increasingly public rift over their approach to the war, and hold talks alongside Poland’s prime minister on support for Kyiv.
Image
Three world leaders walk a red carpet with an honor guard holding weapons and a flag in the background.
From left, Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany, Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland and President Emmanuel Macron of France before their meeting in Berlin on Friday.Credit...Annegret Hilse/Reuters
Erika SolomonRoger Cohen
By Erika Solomon and Roger Cohen
Erika Solomon reported from Berlin, and Roger Cohen from Paris.
March 15, 2024
Updated 11:15 a.m. ET
Sign up for Your Places: Global Update. All the latest news for any part of the world you select. Get it sent to your inbox.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz and President Emmanuel Macron of France met in Berlin on Friday looking to smooth over their differences on how to support Ukraine in its war with Russia and allay concerns that the Franco-German “engine of Europe” is sputtering.
Mr. Scholz hosted Mr. Macron alongside Poland’s prime minister, Donald Tusk, as Europe struggles to maintain unity at a critical moment, with U.S. support for Kyiv in question and Russian forces having made gains on the battlefield.
In recent weeks, the differences between the allies have become unusually public and bitter, even as all agree that support for Ukraine is crucial to preventing further Russian aggression in Europe.
Mr. Macron, eager to stake out a tougher stance toward President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, chided allies not to be “cowards” after they strongly rebuffed his suggestion that NATO countries should not rule out putting troops in Ukraine. From being Europe’s dove on Russia, the French leader, feeling humiliated over his initial outreach to Mr. Putin, has been transformed over the past two years into its hawk.
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The way he has made the switch has rankled some allies. Mr. Macron’s remark was interpreted as a jab at Mr. Scholz’s government, which in turn retorted that Mr. Macron ought to put up more money or weapons to back his words.
Mr. Scholz, who has made Germany the largest military supporter of Ukraine after Washington, feels he has offered the material backing necessary and is resistant to doing more. But to the chagrin of even his own coalition partners, he has drawn a line against sending long-range Taurus missiles.
Mr. Macron, in a television interview Thursday night, doubled down on the ideas he had thrown out earlier, telling TF1 and France 2 television, that “strategic ambiguity” about how far NATO allies would go to support Ukraine was necessary to keep the Kremlin guessing.
Image
A tank with gunners on top moves through an area of Ukraine. The scenery is blurred.
A Leopard 1 tank on the move in Ukraine’s northeastern Kharkiv region in January.Credit...Finbarr O'Reilly for The New York Times
“If, faced with someone who has no limits, faced with someone who crossed every limit that he had given us, we tell him naïvely that we won’t go any further than this or that — at that moment, we are not deciding peace, we are already deciding defeat,” he said.
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“If Russia wins this war, Europe’s credibility will be reduced to zero,” Mr. Macron added. “Do you think that the Poles, the Lithuanians, the Estonians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians could stay in peace even for a second?”
French and German officials privately acknowledge there is a serious clash between the two leaders — one that reflects not just very different personal styles, but stark differences in their approach toward European security.
Those close to Mr. Scholz say that Mr. Macron fails to see that Germany cannot play with strategic ambiguity as France can: Germany has no nuclear weapons, and is dependent on NATO for its nuclear umbrella.
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Mr. Macron will most likely receive backing for his more robust posturing when he and Mr. Scholz are joined later on Friday by Mr. Tusk.
Earlier this week, Mr. Tusk said it fell to Paris, Berlin and Warsaw to “mobilize all of Europe” and to provide more support for Ukraine.
The trilateral talks are a revival of the so-called “Weimar Triangle,” the 1990s-era talks between France, Germany, and Poland to draw eastern European states closer to the European Union and NATO. After lying dormant for years, officials returned to the format in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Image
Soldiers in white camouflage carry shells through the snow.
Members of a Ukrainian artillery unit carried shells in Ukraine’s eastern Donetsk region in January. Ukraine has been pleading for more ammunition.Credit...Finbarr O'Reilly for The New York Times
This round of talks takes place amid stalled negotiations in the United States. With a $60 billion aid package blocked by Republicans in Congress, President Joe Biden announced a $300 million package for weapons to Ukraine in a stopgap measure that Army accountants cobbled together from savings made from contracts that came in under bid.
Ukraine is desperate for weapons to fend off Russian advances, particularly ammunition and air defenses. Yet Europe is struggling to come up with more cash for supplies. European Union leaders on Wednesday announced a 5 billion euro, or $5.5 billion, fund for arms deliveries, but the deal allows E.U. partners to discount shipments they have already provided directly to Ukraine.
In Germany, a growing number of lawmakers are pushing for deliveries of Germany’s Taurus missiles despite Mr. Scholz’s adamant refusals. The opposition Christian Democrats put the matter to a vote in Parliament on Thursday — a largely symbolic move because the two coalition partners to Mr. Scholz’s Social Democrats, the Greens and the Free Democrats, did not support it.
Nonetheless, the two partners have been increasingly vocal in their disagreement with the chancellor over Taurus missiles, and the debate sparked on the Parliament floor reflected growing concerns among Ukraine supporters about hesitancy in Berlin.
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The divide within Germany appears to be worsening as members of the Social Democrats, who before the war were seen as being close to Russia, made arguments that sounded like an incremental retreat to their pacifist positions before the war.
Speaking in Parliament on Thursday, the head of the Social Democrats’ parliamentary faction, Ralf Mützenich, asked: “Is it not time to start thinking, not about how to conduct a war, but how to freeze this conflict and later end it?”
Image
A missile on display in front of a sign reading Taurus in blue letters.
The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has drawn a line at sending long-range Taurus missiles to Ukraine.Credit...Angelika Warmuth/Reuters
Norbert Röttgen, a Christian Democrat, called it an “unbelievable” proposal, writing on the social media platform, X, that it suggested the chancellor’s party was abandoning its goal of derailing Putin’s war.
The debate in Germany on Thursday seemed jarringly far removed from Mr. Macron’s comments that same day, as he told interviewers that “peace is not Ukraine’s capitulation.”
Yet he stopped short of previous comments last month calling for Russia’s defeat, instead using Mr. Scholz’s refrain that Russia “cannot win this war.”
It was perhaps meant as a conciliatory gesture toward the chancellor, who has also tried to dial down the tensions. Earlier this week he told journalists that he had a “very friendly” relationship with Mr. Macron. “It is different than what many people think.”
The centrality of the Franco-German relationship to propelling Europe through the war, and indeed to the whole project of ever greater European integration, will put heavy pressure on the two leaders to paper over their differences and make the best of things in Berlin.
Yet the true test will not be the statements of friendship they formulate, but whether they can provide concrete plans for more support, Mr. Tusk warned. “True solidarity with Ukraine?” he wrote on X, just hours before the meetings: “Less words, more ammunition.”[ Šo ziņu laboja Lafter, 15 Mar 2024, 19:39:48 ]
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| e34 | | Kopš: 11. Feb 2004
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15 Mar 2024, 19:36:41 @Lafter rakstīja:
Sorre dažreiz par palagiem šeit un NATO topic.
Kāpēc nelieku linku-
New york Times abonaments laikam nav pilnīgi visiem. Maksas publikācijas..
Paldies par resursu | | Offline | | |
| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
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| Diezgan rēcīgs stāsts par russu kurš izgāja no Tanka zādzības apsūdzības līdz dezertierim. Pa vidu vēl viņu atpizģīja 
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| uldens1 | |  Kopš: 28. Feb 2008
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| Dīvaini pašlaik tas viss izskatās,gatavi dot savu armiju,bet ieročus nehuja nevar iedot cik vajag!!!Būtu sadevuši eirofaiterus,mirāžus un ko tik vēl ne,ukraiņi paši izvālētu rusņu | | Offline | | |
| Lafter | | Kopš: 23. Sep 2007
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| Šitais demokrātu joks varētu izdoties lai apietu spīkeru.
Petīcija
Atšķirībā no pirmās kuru parakstīja 0 Republikāņu, šo ir parakstījuši vairāk republikāņi, kā demokràti
Rekur arī sekas Ukrainas triecieniem pa naftas pārstrādes rûpnīcām
[ Šo ziņu laboja Lafter, 15 Mar 2024, 21:33:38 ]
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